tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8123225361504762353.post4120884486759853493..comments2024-03-26T21:54:22.713-07:00Comments on Cartonerd: UK cartography (and the failing British Cartographic Society)Kenneth Fieldhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16738467752479352030noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8123225361504762353.post-69892818916742459662017-04-10T04:58:48.472-07:002017-04-10T04:58:48.472-07:00If that was the total charged by the marketing com...If that was the total charged by the marketing company then presumably it included other aspects of the rebranding besides the website. As you say, skinning wordpress only takes a few hours; the freelancers who do this typically charge £45-£50/hour.Jonathan Harleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07842462025041520848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8123225361504762353.post-52038703053820355692017-04-07T18:57:59.178-07:002017-04-07T18:57:59.178-07:00Thanks for putting a link to the response in these...Thanks for putting a link to the response in these comments Paul. I appreciate the time you've taken to put them together<br /><br />I remain concerned since the response really only reiterates what the society attempts to do or thinks it is doing. Obviously I was attempting to dig a little deeper and prompt a debate about issues that concern many people and which have been coming slowly to the fore over many years. I even emailed the President and suggested the substantive points I raise might form a useful panel discussion in Durham but I have yet to receive a response on that suggestion.<br /><br />In fact, I am currently in Boston at the AAG meeting and I know the President is also here. He 'must' know I am here and so the comments you make about BCS encouraging face to face discussions don't seem to be playing out as he hasn't asked to meet me here. Not to worry. It doesn't really matter.<br /><br />I have, though, had many people approach me saying how much they appreciated me saying what I said so I hope those volunteers on Council who may be feeling a little hurt personally can see that it's not about people or personality. It goes deeper. These issues deserve discussion.<br /><br />Thanks again. Kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15699366133342613861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8123225361504762353.post-27337017599134114772017-04-07T05:45:30.861-07:002017-04-07T05:45:30.861-07:00A full response to this blog post may be found at ...A full response to this blog post may be found at www.cartography.org.uk/2017/04/shaping-the-future-of-the-bcs/British Cartographic Societyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10754391285664880104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8123225361504762353.post-82704753374416489872017-04-01T08:22:16.762-07:002017-04-01T08:22:16.762-07:00Thanks for taking the time to comment Jonathan. I ...Thanks for taking the time to comment Jonathan. I have it on good authority that figure was the one charged by the marketing company who did the work. Kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15699366133342613861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8123225361504762353.post-46034748221784070972017-04-01T02:31:10.665-07:002017-04-01T02:31:10.665-07:00£8000 for a wordpress site is shocking if true - 1...£8000 for a wordpress site is shocking if true - 10x too much.<br /><br />You're dead right that someone in the BCS could have done it for free. I'm a BCS member and I volunteered to overhaul the website when I applied for the post of administrative assistant in 2015 (I offered to do this in addition to the administrative duties, naturally).<br /><br />My application was turned down, and when I asked for feedback on it, I was simply ignored.Jonathan Harleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07842462025041520848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8123225361504762353.post-40254741256052787902017-03-31T10:44:51.676-07:002017-03-31T10:44:51.676-07:00Thanks David, I'm getting a lot of good feedba...Thanks David, I'm getting a lot of good feedback which has encouraged me to feel better for speaking out. I will be surprised if the official response is anything other than closing ranks but I hope I'm wrong.Kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15699366133342613861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8123225361504762353.post-22538361405263010662017-03-31T10:08:56.583-07:002017-03-31T10:08:56.583-07:00Well done. I have to agree. A very useful document...Well done. I have to agree. A very useful document and well said.EGCP Limited Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18357073790973861696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8123225361504762353.post-13716605668662273092017-03-31T08:42:45.238-07:002017-03-31T08:42:45.238-07:00I look forward to the reply. I have no doubt you&#...I look forward to the reply. I have no doubt you'll be carefully looking to identify any factual or misleading errors that might divert from the substantive issues I raise. Not least that my experience over the last 15 years or so shows the society is not dynamic, is not welcoming and does not actually encourage new ideas. That's three factual errors in your own assertion.Kenneth Fieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16738467752479352030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8123225361504762353.post-18961767316485019782017-03-31T07:18:10.618-07:002017-03-31T07:18:10.618-07:00As a dynamic Society, the BCS is always open to le...As a dynamic Society, the BCS is always open to learn of new ways in which it can promote maps and mapmaking and improve what we offer to our members. We always welcome and encourage new ideas for discussion. There are, however, factual errors in your blog that are misleading and require a fuller response from the BCS, which will follow.British Cartographic Societyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10754391285664880104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8123225361504762353.post-21414210899955804632017-03-30T11:11:49.716-07:002017-03-30T11:11:49.716-07:00Hi Warren, diplomacy has failed countless times. T...Hi Warren, diplomacy has failed countless times. This isn't a rant though. When you read other posts you'll see how I rant :-) Surprised you haven't been here before though - BCS newsletters and President's bulletin's often use it for copy.Kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15699366133342613861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8123225361504762353.post-23732782888039249002017-03-30T11:09:32.206-07:002017-03-30T11:09:32.206-07:00Thanks Craig,
Sometimes the only way ahead is to p...Thanks Craig,<br />Sometimes the only way ahead is to put your head above the parapet and say what needs to be said. I don't mind being that disruptive voice. I agree entirely with your comments.Kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15699366133342613861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8123225361504762353.post-68658176687786092392017-03-30T11:05:22.173-07:002017-03-30T11:05:22.173-07:00Sorry, Ken. Your application for the Diplomatic Se...Sorry, Ken. Your application for the Diplomatic Service has been rejected. But good news... your rant brought me to your blog for the first time.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14678060122724599343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8123225361504762353.post-9509952399085750822017-03-30T05:16:21.209-07:002017-03-30T05:16:21.209-07:00Thoughtful discourse Ken. This could be said of ma...Thoughtful discourse Ken. This could be said of many industry bodies, but I know you have a close affinity with BCS.<br /><br />We've spoken before about the challenges of small professional bodies like BCS, IMIA and others. The challenge for administrators of these groups is to create a body that provides value to its members. This is difficult for largely volunteer organisations run by many who are not experts in administration, but, as is often the case, experts in their chosen field, but passionate enough to volunteer their time to make a difference.<br /><br />As a member of a number of these organisations, 'what's in it for me' is two-fold - I want to expand my professional network and create business connections that might lead to work. And I want to learn from the experience of others to broaden my professional knowledge. A by-product of this is that I invariably make new friends that have a like-minded interest and who are people you can turn to in a professional sense.<br /><br />Awards, magazines, websites, etc are a means to an end for many organisations, but provide limited value to members, particularly in the age of social media where information gathering and exchange is so immediate. Many organisations have been slow to change and have not had the people with the necessary knowledge and skills to bring them into the modern age.<br /><br />My knowledge of BCS is limited, though I was a member briefly, but as an industry (cartography) we are relatively small. Country-wide cartographic-specific professional bodies are simply not sustainable. NACIS seems to be the exception, but in North America there's a strong academic heritage in cartography, which seems to be lacking in other countries. I'm not sure about the UK, but in Australia there is no specific cartographic tertiary course offered. This is a sign of the changing face of the profession, but also the lack of opportunities for graduates, which leads to smaller professional bodies, which leads to the position BCS, SoC, IMIA and others find themselves in.<br /><br />Personally I think there's never been a better time to be a cartographer, but you also need to be more than just a cartographer these days. Gone are the days of a steady hand, sharp eyes and the patience of Job...you need coding skills, a knowledge of data and databases as well as a design sensibility (among many other skills, I might add). <br /><br />The thing I see missing from many professional organisations right now is youth. Young active professionals who want to learn as much as possible, but also the commitment to driving a professional organisation in a direction that is meaningful to them. Again, NACIS is the exception here, as their cohort is a mix of youth and experience, academic and professional. Why other organisations can't get that mix right I don't know.<br /><br />Thanks for having the courage to put your thoughts into the public domain.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01326709864013024599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8123225361504762353.post-1734053434023491152017-03-29T17:04:41.617-07:002017-03-29T17:04:41.617-07:00Wow, sixteen thousand words on what's wrong wi...Wow, sixteen thousand words on what's wrong with the BCS. That's some light Thursday morning reading. I skimmed some of the more specific-to-BCS stuff, but I can see a lot of similarities with how the institutional spatial societies operate in Australia.<br /><br />I wonder if your past closeness with BCS is driving your desire to see it re-made. As someone with no connections to the Society, it seems more likely that they'll simply be unmade. It's a classic death spiral: fewer events -> fewer members -> less income -> fewer events and so on to extinction. <br /><br />Cartographers, GIS folks, academic geographers, even surveyors and data scientists have now all loosely banded together under the nebulous title of "mapmakers." And all modern mapmakers should now be totally on board with using MOOCs, udemy, meetup, geomob, maptime, cartotalk, stackexchange, twitter etc. etc. - you touched on all of this. But what benefit is there to me as a mapmaker in paying an institution to aggregate (or needlessly duplicate) all of these resources, which are already freely available, and which I've already filtered and aggregated to my own specific mapmaking needs? <br /><br />Most things traditionally handled centrally by professional societies (no matter the profession) are now distributed and personalised, which is a better result for the individuals in that profession, but bad news for the due-collecting societies. If it means the death of those societies, I'm fine with that - except possibly that it likely means the death of larger conferences as well. Although they're typically rather dull anyway - I much prefer the meetup style of knowledge sharing and networking - so maybe there really isn't a downside.<br /><br />Anyway, good thoughts! Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02942441886727414261noreply@blogger.com